Outskirts Press says the reviewer will “provide one hundred percent honest feedback that can be used by an author as a promotional tool.” They also claim:
"It's an excellent way for authors to quickly get people 'buzzing' about their books."Outskirts is not guaranteeing the author a positive review, but they do say:
A full review of two to three hundred words will be ready within ten to twelve weeks and authors can use the review as they see fit: on the back cover of their books, on their own sites, in letters to agents, publishers, librarians or book store owners, or in any of their other marketing collateral.
… even one praiseworthy phrase from a Kirkus reviewer becomes potent advertising copy for a new author's book.You can read all about their new Kirkus Guaranteed Review service in their Press Release.
What do you think about this?
This seems manipulative...but I suppose it's smart marketing.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't find the pricing but their PR service seems interesting.
ReplyDeleteChemical Fusion
I've been looking into getting my book reviewed by Kirkus. They charge indies (self-publishing) $425 for a review in 7-9 week and $575 for 3-4 week turnaround. That tells me that Outskirts Press is charging the author another $174 for adding on the Kirkus review and adding a few more weeks into the bargain. Beware of some vanity presses, and Outskirts is a vanity press.
ReplyDeleteI published my book by CreateSpace and did it all on my own, paying only for the proof and $39 for distribution that makes the distribution listed by Outskirts Press look lame by comparison, and it's a whole lot cheaper. Of course, I didn't have Outskirts Press holding my hand and charging me for everything. There are author charges for hand-holding from CreateSpace, too, but not like this.
I'd check out any vanity press with Preditors & Editors and with Writers Weekly in their warnings section before signing with any of them. I have worked with a few authors, editing their books for publication, and have come across some shabby work, none of which was worth the money. Be careful. Check them out and check out their claims. I did and it took a few seconds to get the above information.
Kirkus does charge indies for book reviews, so I contacted them and asked why. Charging is a way of weeding out the hundreds upon hundreds of self-published authors wanting a review from them and to manage costs. It's pricey, but it's fair, and it will change when indie authors become more professional and put out the kind of quality books that publishers have been doing for years. It takes time and a little money to do it right and have a product worth selling, even in e-book format. Check everything. Check them twice. Pay nothing until you're sure you're getting value for your money.
Well, I'm sure it doesn't come cheap, but what's the saying? You have to spend money to make money. So for an author wanting this, it's nice to know it's available.
ReplyDeleteDidn't I hear somewhere that one could now buy reviews from Kirkus? Anyway, that would be my first thoughts-- that this new press is a subsidiary of Kirkus, or whoever owns them, or that the reviews can be bought, and the vanity press will of course pass this cost on to its poor authors.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I just read J.M. Cornwall's comment, so that confirms my suspicions. Which of course will ultimately cheapen the status of their reviews I think.
ReplyDeleteHonest reviews are always useful for potential readers. In general, I like balanced reviews that discuss various aspects of the books, because a good book for one reader might not be good for the other; people are different. Usually I do not like blurbs, because they are always misleading, taking random statements out of context.
ReplyDeleteCold As Heaven
Karen, reviewers, especially professional reviewers, need to be paid and the money has to come from somewhere. Doing reviews as a philanthropic thing doesn't pay the mortgage or buy food and pay the bills. It's just good business.
ReplyDeleteKirkus told me that the price is to pay their professional reviewers and to weed out self-published authors not serious about their books, and whose books may not be up to snuff, so to speak. They do reviews for nearly 300,000 traditionally published authors every year, and no doubt the publishers pay in one form or another. Saying that their reviews are suspect because they require money to run their business is like saying the food at a restaurant is suspect because you have to pay for the service. Book reviewing, like any other business, is just that -- a business.
Do you expect reviewers to work for free? If so, how should they make money for the time it takes to read, make notations and write a comprehensive and cogent review? Would you think that the work an editor, who charged for critiquing your work, did was suspect because they charged for the critique or that a copy editor who went through your book to clear up all errors, omissions, etc. and charged was less than professional?
How do you expect a professional to make money?
Getting (or paying for) a review from any major review service does not mean you will get a favorable review. So authors who decide to pay for one should not be surprised if it's not favorable since that is not what Kirkus or any other review service would guarantee. If the review is good and usable, that's great. If it's not, move on and come up with other ways to get a quotable review for the cover.
ReplyDeleteI was reading the comments - so an author with Outskirts has to pay for the review?
ReplyDeleteAlex, since the author is self-published, even through Outskirts Press, yes, they have to pay for the review. If OP was a traditional publisher, they would not have to pay. If you go to Kirkus Reviews, you will see that all self-published authors must pay for a review. Good, bad, or indifferent, it costs to be a writer.
ReplyDeleteYep. Outskirts calls it a "marketing option." That means if the author wants to get a Kirkus review, they pay for it through Outskirts.
ReplyDeleteA Kirkus review is great, no doubt about it, but is it as great as it used to be? I'm not sure if my publishers have ever paid for reviews but, these days, I think that a stack of reviews on Amazon or Goodreads works just as well to boost sales. It's certainly a lot cheaper.
ReplyDeleteYou're right about the Kirkus review being great, if it is a good review, but it is more cost effective to solicit reviews on Goodreads and Amazon, or any of the bookstore sites. The Kirkus is guaranteed either way, not the outcome just the review, but getting reviews on any of the other sites, unless you prime the pump by giving away free books and requesting Amazon, etc. reviews, will still cost you money in time and books, and there is no guarantee that the reviewers will follow through and post their reviews.
ReplyDeleteIn indie publishing, it's all about the best use of your time and money in marketing. There's no sense in spending a lot of money when there is little or no return. I speak as an author who has been traditionally published and self-published, and as a professional reviewer (yes, I do get paid).
Another fascinating and interesting discussion, the comments were so informative. As long as a review is honest does it matter if it's paid for? Is it any difference to paying for an editor? Something for me to look into, although I must still convert $ into ZAR's so that makes it expensive.
ReplyDeleteJudy, South Africa
Judy, I'm sure you could find someone local to do the work for you at a reasonable rate. Keep looking and pricing. It's what I'd do.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little wary of speaking out against large reviewers, but I'll admit to not being very fond of Kirkus. :) I'd rather have my book reviewed by book bloggers (although Kirkus *has* reviewed a couple of my books before.) I'm more of a PW fan.
ReplyDelete...well, there goes my afternoon! I've just spent the past half hour not only reading your interesting post, but following it up with all the informative comments. Fellow writers...not only savvy, but a jolly interesting bunch:)
ReplyDeleteEchoing the sentiments of the majority of comments, I'd be wary of any form of vanity press and their added incentives.
If considering that route, I'd first consider E-Publishing on Kindle, the new craze, and seeing where it takes you.
EL
It used to be that THE place to get a review was the NY Times. But they were very selective in who they reviewed. Now, there are a lot of options, including popular blogs. I do know that I'm more likely to read reviews on Amazon or B&N than I used to.
ReplyDeleteI usually check a book review or two on Amazon before I click to buy, just so I kind of know what the book is about. If I see a really bad review, I probably won't get the book, but otherwise if the story sounds interesting I'll get it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe libraries go by what Kirkus says, but I wonder how much faith they'll keep putting in it if it turns out to be just a profit-making reviewer.
Morgan Mandel
http://www.morganmandel.com
http://morganmandel.blogspot.com
It seems like if ordinary bloggers like me must now include and FTC Disclaimer on each review, then Kirkus and the big names reviewers should have to disclose if they were paid for a review. Perhaps they already do that. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteI guess it depends on what you want as the author. If you're happy to pay (probably a lot of money) for a review that could turn out to be negative, that's the chance you have to take. I can see how getting a review from a popular, reliable source would be invaluable. But again, you can't guarantee there'll be anything worth taking out of the review and stamping on a book cover or website. I rarely take notice of blurbs anyway.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm really torn on this one, and because of its risky nature it definitely won't suit everyone.
Morgan, I believe everyone know that Kirkus is a review service and that it costs money to run the business, so I doubt that being paid is an issue nor does it lower their profile and what their reviewers do -- write book reviews.
ReplyDeleteEveryone wants a good review from Kirkus. I can't imagine having that many reviewers on staff to review indie books--unless Kirkus needs the money.
ReplyDeleteThis was interesting. I received good reviews from PW and Booklist for my first fantasy novel and it didn't cost anything.
ReplyDeleteBut writing is a business and companies like Kirkus and this Outskirts Press are trying to make their dollars like everyone else. I guess it's up to the individual author how many of your dollars you want to give them.
A paid review is never worth it, especially of a subsidy press book. (And with most subsidies, I bet the author could go straight to Kirkus and spend less money on the review package, which I believe is around $400. But again, it's a paid review - not worth it.)
ReplyDeleteActually, I didn't know this info. I'm kinda wary of paying someone for a review though - positive or negative.
ReplyDelete.......dhole
Very informative discussion here. While I agree that a service needs to make money, there are too many other (many more valid) choices out there that cost less - or even free.
ReplyDeleteI'd say this is a matter of perceived value. If an author perceives that a Kirkus Review will be beneficial to their promotions, then the value is higher than if someone is just looking for reviews from anyone and everyone and expecting a free ride. In that case, better to wait for bookstore reviews and not bother.
ReplyDeleteKirkus reviews are highly esteemed because the books are vetted first and the reviewers are respected professionals. That means something -- or at least it used to. I'm not averse to paying for a Kirkus review, and I have considered it, but I have to balance the value of the review against whatever other marketing and promotional plans I have. I don't expect people to advertise or promote my books for free, unless they are readers who are moved to write reviews, which is a whole other kettle of fish.
I can see the pros and cons of paying for a review, but I do wonder how a Kirkus review would influence the average reader in today's publishing arena. The reviews posted on Amazon and other sites like that do influence the general reading public. However, they vary in quality considerably, and I only pay attention to those written by someone who has a basic understanding of story and craft.
ReplyDeleteNot so much with books, but it also helps to check out previous reviews since the Amazon reviewer may be a ringer. In other words, someone working for the company who is padding and boosting ratings.
ReplyDeleteWell, again Helen, you shown me how outside the loop I am ... I'd never heard of Kirkus before. As to paying for a review, I'm kinda agin' it ... maybe it's just because I couldn't afford it ... but, it just doesn't smell right ... I'm not quite sure how paying for a review is a type of vetting ... because a self-published author has a few bucks their stuff is more review-worthy? In the end, I guess I'm unqualified to comment ... both financially and intellectually.
ReplyDeleteHow cool is that. Like everyone, I'd love to have a Kirkus Review. Thanks for the link. This is great news.
ReplyDeleteYou're right Jennifer. It is risky, but there's that chance that you'll have something you can put on your cover that comes from a well-known source. And that might influence sales.
ReplyDeleteJ.M., Kirkus is a service, but I'm not so sure everyone was aware that they get paid by authors or publishers to review books. It's easy to believe they get paid by the newsletter or outlet that publishes the reviews. And those outlets get paid via advertisers...and so on. So, learning this could be news to a lot of people.
That's right, Susan. This is one more thing under our control.
Maryann, the difference may be in the reader. Writers who read know that Kirkus is a paid review company. The average reader probably does not know that. They only know that Kirkus is a respected and well-known reviewer.
Christopher, even thought they're paid, Kirkus isn't saying that ponying up the money will get you a good review.
If you do it, Stephen, I'd appreciate it you let us know what it cost and how you liked the results (either here or on your own stupendous blog).
Hel, that's where the rubber meets the road. Paying for a good review is fraudulent, but paying a review service for a review and taking what you get is business. There is the difference. One is paying for a lie if the book is awful and the other is paying the professional for his time. That needs to be the deciding factor in paying for reviews.
ReplyDeleteSounds quite interesting. Definitely worth checking out, considering, once a little homework is done. And once again, thanks for the helpful post, lead, and link!
ReplyDeleteIf an author or publisher pays for a review anywhere, like in Kirkus, I hope the review will state that the review was paid for, whether or not the review is favorable or negative. For the sake of integrity Kirkus needs to announce the payment in each review.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting this. I wonder how Outskirts came about this if it's so expensive. I looked at Outskirts when I first considered self publishing and was put off by their "as is" clause in their contract. Although they verbally told me they've never had a problem, when the author signs the contract they have no recourse for any errors that Outskirts makes.
ReplyDeleteAnn